Ocean In Play (Ocean's Hungry Grasp)

Errata / Updates

Effect Rules

• Core game, Branch & Claw, Promo, Jagged Earth - all printings
  Errata / Clarification on which items are triggered actions -- Jagged Earth formalized how triggered actions work. The following earlier items are triggered actions ("after X, do Y") even though their wording doesn't use "after":

  • Vengeance of the Dead (Major Power, core game);
  • Ocean In Play (Ocean's Hungry Grasp special rule, core game);
  • Sworn to Victory¹ (Thunderspeaker special rule, core game);
  • Blazing Presence² (Heart of the Wildfire special rule, promo 1);
  • Constant Raiding (Dahan Insurrection Scenario rule, core game);
  • Military Response (Dahan Insurrection Scenario rule, core game).

  The following items are also triggered actions ("after X, do Y") even though their wording doesn't use "after" (but practically speaking it doesn't matter much):

  • Portents of Disaster (Minor Power - Branch & Claw);
  • Forbidden Ground³ (Keeper of the Forbidden Wilds special rule - Branch & Claw);
  • Deep Layers Exposed to the Surface (Stone's Unyielding Defiance special rule - Jagged Earth)

  ¹ = The trigger is "After a Ravage destroys 1 or more Dahan..." and does not involve Blight; see this FAQ entry for elaboration.
  ² = This rule used to say "When you add or move Presence...". More recent printings of the Spirit correctly say "After you add or move [Presence] after Setup...".
  ³ = Read as, "After one or more lands become a Sacred Site for you, Push all Dahan from those lands."
  

  See Summary of Action rules for more details on how triggered actions work in general.

  Adversary instructions saying "After Setup:" are not triggered actions, but just a specification of when that rule applies ("not during Setup"). We apologize for the wording overlap, and will be using "During Play:" or "Post-Setup:" moving forward.
  Tags: Triggered Actions, Vengeance of the Dead, Portents of Disaster, Sworn to Victory (Thunderspeaker), 5 more...

Frequently Asked Questions

Adversaries

• When playing with against France, what happens to Towns that end up somewhere other than on the island (e.g., on the Great River panel)?
  They go back into the pool of available Towns for France's loss condition, like if they were removed/destroyed. If the Towns would be used for tracking elsewhere, track that thing with another component. (e.g., swap them for 2 Explorers on the panel for Ocean's Hungry Grasp or use Scenario Markers to represent Towns that escaped in the Great River scenario.)

  The intent of France's Town pool is to track how many Towns are on the island; it's just considerably easier to do this with a limited Town pool than by counting the number on the board every time one gets added. In cases where the Towns permanently leave play, it's appropriate to return them to the supply to keep that count correct, even if they'd otherwise be removed from the game entirely (e.g., by the leather sack in Powers Long Forgotten).
  Tags: The Great River, Kingdom of France, Ocean In Play (Ocean's Hungry Grasp), Ocean's Hungry Grasp, 1 more...
• For Durable Invaders from Habsburg Monarchy (Livestock Colony) Level 4, what exactly counts as a ‘Destroy all’ effect?
  Only “Destroy everything” or “Destroy all (piece) (in a land or lands)”, like “Destroy all Explorer/Town.” Effects limiting the destruction by something the piece has or did (e.g., “is damaged”, “was just moved”, “has Strife”) are not considered “destroy all” and are converted to Damage like all other destroy effects.

  This is most relevant for Ocean's Hungry Grasp, which has “After Invaders/Dahan are moved into the Ocean, Destroy them”; since this limits what gets destroy to “pieces that moved”, it's not a “destroy all”.
  Tags: Durable, Destroy, Habsburg Monarchy (Livestock Colony), Ocean In Play (Ocean's Hungry Grasp), 4 more...

Aspects

• Can a land sunk by Deeps be targeted with Powers?
  Yes, but only insofar as it's part of the entire Ocean on that board, and that Ocean as a whole can be targeted (if Ocean's Hungry Grasp is still present on the board).

  It's impossible to only target the part of that Ocean that was formally a particular land in the same way that it's impossible to only target the left side of a printed land, or only target part of a joined land created by Weave Together the Fabric of Place.
  Tags: Targeting, Deeps Aspect (Ocean's Hungry Grasp), Ocean In Play (Ocean's Hungry Grasp)

Definitions

• If Oceans are in play, and you Weave Together an Ocean with a Coastal Land, is the resulting joined land Coastal?
  Yes, for all purposes.

  A strict reading of the rules would say "only for Powers and Blight" (Ocean's Hungry Grasp) or "only for Blight removal/movement" (Scotland 5), because the joined land is not adjacent to itself, and "Coastal" means "adjacent to the Ocean". But that's super-wrong thematically, so it gets an exception-case.
  Tags: Land Types, Ocean In Play (Ocean's Hungry Grasp), Kingdom of Scotland, Weave Together the Fabric of Place, 1 more...

General Play

• What happens if a piece winds up in a place or state it's not allowed to be?
  Pieces representing humans (Dahan / Invaders) are cleaned up to the closest legal land — this is not considered a move, is not an action, and does not trigger anything, it is simply a correction of the game state. This happens only once you are not in the middle of an action, and there are no pending triggered actions (i.e., after each action tree), just before checking for victory/defeat. All other pieces remain where they are, but are considered out of play unless/until they're no longer in an illegal state.

  This sort of thing can happen if pieces survive the sinking of a board (like Dahan via Infinite Vitality with threshold or Explorers via the Tsardom of Russia's A Sense for Impending Disaster), if an Ocean stops being a land (by Ocean's Hungry Grasp losing its Presence there) while other Spirits' Presence is there, or if Invaders/Dahan are left in the Ocean after an action but manage not to Drown in some way.

  If the nearest legal land is unclear, use your best judgment, based on physical distance if necessary. If there is literally no legal land to put the pieces in, return them to the supply; this is still considered cleaning up (not an action, not a move/remove/destroy, does not trigger anything).
  Tags: Pieces, Illegally placed pieces, Victory and Defeat, Action tree, 6 more...

Power Cards

• If an inland and Coastal land get Woven Together by the Fabric of Place, can Ocean leave their Presence inland during Time Passes?
  No.

  The joint land is Coastal, but the split when Weave Together the Fabric of Place expires is considered a move, and Ocean's Presence cannot move to an inland land.
  (Discussion elsewhere)  Tags: Weave Together the Fabric of Place, Ocean's Hungry Grasp, Volcano Looming High, Mountain Home (Volcano Looming High), 3 more...

Range and Targeting

• Can you place Presence during Growth based on range from your Presence in the Ocean?
  Yes, even though the Oceans are not a land at that time (since Growth is not a Power or Blight).

  Once Presence is in the Ocean, it is treated normally until/unless the Ocean is no longer in play (because Ocean's Hungry Grasp loses all Presence on that board).
  (Discussion elsewhere)  Tags: Ocean's Hungry Grasp, Ocean In Play (Ocean's Hungry Grasp)

Spirits and Innate Powers

• If playing with Ocean's Hungry Grasp and you Weave Together a land with an Ocean, how does that work? What if Ocean's Hungry Grasp loses all their Presence from that board?
  The joined land and all adjacent lands will be Coastal for all purposes, including Invader Actions. Invaders/Dahan already in the joined land don't trigger Ocean In Play (which Drowns after they move in), but when Weave Together wears off you can "move" pieces to the Ocean and Drown them. The joined land is a land all the time, not just for Powers/Blight, so other actions (Fear/Event/Invader/etc) affect it normally. Note that adding a piece (from, eg, a Build) is not the same as moving it; moving triggers Drowning, while adding does not.

  If OHG loses all Presence from the board, the joined land remains in play (and retains the printed Ocean area as part of its topology, so makes adjacent lands Coastal), but Ocean In Play no longer applies to it, so Invaders/Dahan aren't Drowned after moving there and it's no longer a Wetland for purposes of Powers/Blight (unless it's a Wetland for other reasons).

  In the extremely weird event that two Oceans are Woven directly together (via Finder of Paths Unseen) and OHG loses their Presence from both of them, the joined land stops being a land, but remains topologically joined. (This is possibly relevant if playing with an Archipelago.)
  (Discussion elsewhere)  Tags: Land Types, Archipelago, Weave Together the Fabric of Place, Open the Ways (Finder of Paths Unseen), 3 more...
• Heart of the Wildfire and Ocean's Hungry Grasp have special rules that refer to "you" adding or moving presence. If another spirit moves your presence (e.g. with Flowing and Silent Forms Dart By), do those rules apply?
  Yes. No ability to move other Spirits' presence existed until Jagged Earth, so the wording doesn't handle that contingency. Apologies!

  More recent printings of these Spirits have adjusted the wording to reflect the intent.
  Tags: Adding Presence, Presence, Blazing Presence (Heart of the Wildfire), Ocean In Play (Ocean's Hungry Grasp), 0 more...
• Can Invader Actions happen in a place that isn't a land (e.g., in The Endless Dark)?
  No. If a Power would cause an Invader Action there (e.g., Manifest Incarnation causing a Ravage), skip that instruction because it can't be resolved.
  Tags: Ravage, Build, Blur the Arc of Years (Fractured Days Split the Sky), Manifest Incarnation, 4 more...
• When Ocean’s Hungry Grasp is on a board, can Powers and Special Rules measure Range through that board’s Ocean?
  Yes, Powers and Special Rules can treat the Ocean as a land via Ocean in Play, so they can measure Range through it. Measuring Range through Land 2 is usually just as good, so this only matters if something has altered the board layout in some way:

  • The Thematic Map has some Oceans that are adjacent to more than three lands.
  • Land 2 is temporarily removed from play via Absolute Stasis.
  • Finder of Paths Unseen is using Open the Ways to connect a land to an Ocean.
    Tags: Range, Thematic map, Ocean In Play (Ocean's Hungry Grasp), Ocean's Hungry Grasp, 3 more...
• What happens if the Durable Towns of Habsburg Monarchy (Livestock Colony) Level 4 are moved into the Ocean? Do they Drown? Does Ocean's Hungry Grasp gain Energy?
  Maybe. Drowning is a special form of Destroy, so it works just like a restricted Destroy effect ("2 Damage to those Towns only" per Town moved into the Ocean). It only grants Energy for Invaders successfully destroyed by that Destroy instruction.

  E.g., After you move a Town into an Ocean, the Town takes 2 Damage. If that’s enough to Destroy it (because the Ocean has Blight or the Town was already Damaged), then it Drowns normally. Otherwise, it follows the usual rules for Invaders/Dahan that fail to drown in the Ocean: you Push it to a non-Ocean land. If the land it goes to has Blight, it will immediately be Destroyed, but Ocean’s Hungry Grasp will not gain Energy.

  If 4 undamaged Towns are pushed into the Ocean with a single Action, that results in “8 Damage to those Towns only”, which you could distribute as you wished. If you used it to immediately Destroy 2 of the Towns, those Towns would be successfully Drowned and grant Energy.
  Tags: Destroy, Durable, Habsburg Monarchy (Livestock Colony), Ocean In Play (Ocean's Hungry Grasp), 2 more...
• If a Power moves Dahan into the Ocean when Ocean's Hungry Grasp is in play, can Thunderspeaker move its Presence with them into the Ocean?
  Yes, Presence can end up in the Ocean this way. The same is true with Sharp Fangs Behind the Leaves moving with Beasts.

  These special rules modify the action of the Power, which is allowed to to target the Ocean as a Coastal Wetland by the special rule Ocean In Play.
  (Discussion elsewhere)  Tags: Ocean's Hungry Grasp, Thunderspeaker, Sharp Fangs behind the Leaves, Ocean In Play (Ocean's Hungry Grasp), 0 more...
• How does Reach from the Infinite Darkness work with Presence from Spirits with restrictions on where they can move Presence?
  Since Reach from the Infinite Darkness ignores these restrictions, Presence from those Spirits can be abducted without any issue. However, that Presence can only escape to lands that it could normally be moved to, whether Coastal lands (Ocean’s Hungry Grasp), Inland lands (Lure of the Deep Wilderness), or Mountains (Volcano Looming High). If Breath of Darkness Down Your Spine doesn’t have Presence or its Incarna in any legal lands, you must choose to let a different piece escape or lose the game.

  Every Growth option has a way to add or move Presence or the Incarna into a new land, so this generally won't be a loss threat unless multiple such Spirits have their Presence abducted and Breath of Darkness Down Your Spine is unusually low on Presence.
  Tags: Move, Breath of Darkness Down Your Spine, Reach from the Infinite Darkness (Breath of Darkness Down Your Spine), The Endless Dark (Breath of Darkness Down Your Spine), 7 more...
• What happens if 1 or more Invaders/Dahan moved into the Ocean aren't successfully destroyed by the Ocean in Play special rule?
  Push them to non-Ocean lands (as part of the same action). If the Push also fails somehow (perhaps due to Isolate), the pieces will be left in an illegal state and cleaned up to the nearest land after all triggered actions complete – human pieces cannot remain in the Ocean between "action trees" (a primary action and all other actions following from it). Regardless, Ocean's Hungry Grasp does not get Energy for them.

  This isn't formally specified on Ocean's panel because it's virtually never relevant with just the core game, and spelling it out would both take up a lot of space and needlessly increase complexity / confusion-potential for players who only have the base game. However, it becomes very relevant when playing vs. The Habsburg Monarchy Lvl 4+ (Jagged Earth), which blunts "Destroy Town" effects; see this FAQ if you need details.

  The fact that the Push is part of the triggered action means that it can trigger further actions – e.g., Melt Earth Into Quicksand or Call to Guard in the land Pushed to – which cleaning up illegally placed pieces does not do.

  As a very specific edge-case, if the Ocean is also a normal land due to Weave Together the Fabric of Place, humans can hang out there without trouble (until end of turn when the effect expires).
  Tags: Illegally placed pieces, Triggered Actions, Push, Durable, 5 more...
• What happens to items left in the ocean if the last Presence of Ocean's Hungry Grasp is removed from the Island Board?
  Pieces not representing humans physically remain where they are, but are considered out of play until/unless that Ocean returns to play. Invaders and Dahan are cleaned up to the nearest legal land (though it's rare for this to be relevant, since they're also cleaned up to the nearest legal land every time you complete a primary action.)

  This answer used to be different, but Jagged Earth development resulted in general-case rules for what happens to pieces left in an illegal state/location.
  Tags: Illegally placed pieces, Changed rulings, Ocean's Hungry Grasp, Ocean In Play (Ocean's Hungry Grasp), 0 more...
• If Ocean's Presence is moved/destroyed entirely off a board in the middle of an action, when does "treat the Ocean as Coastal Wetlands" expire?
  It stays in effect until the end of the action tree (you're not in the middle of an action, and have no triggered actions about to happen).
  Tags: Presence, Actions, Action tree, Ocean In Play (Ocean's Hungry Grasp), 1 more...
• If Finder of Paths Unseen gets Presence in the Ocean, can it make lands Coastal?
  Yes, if an Ocean with Finder's Presence is a land.

  Whether a land is Coastal is defined by whether the land is adjacent to the Ocean. Open the Ways can create an adjacency between two of Finder's lands, allowing it to make lands (temporarily) Coastal.

  Ocean's specification of "for Powers and Blight" makes this question really murky, but allowing it is much more thematic and fun, so that's the way the ruling is going. If it proves a problem later, it'll get changed then.
  Tags: Open the Ways (Finder of Paths Unseen), Coastal Lands invader card, Ocean In Play (Ocean's Hungry Grasp), Finder of Paths Unseen, 1 more...
• When Oceans are in play, can Invader or Dahan pieces remain in the Ocean if they avoid Drowning?
  No, Invaders and Dahan are not allowed to exist in the Ocean long-term. If one manages to get there without being Drowned, move them to the closest legal land after finishing resolution of whatever got them there.

  In the base game, the edge-case where this can happen is if Bringer of Dreams and Nightmares uses Vengeance of the Dead (with threshold) on the Ocean itself. A Town/City/Dahan is moved to the Ocean, triggering Ocean In Play which Drowns it. Drowning (destroying) it triggers Vengeance of the Dead. If Bringer deals VotD's "damage" in an adjacent land to "destroy" a Town or Explorer and Push it into the Ocean, Ocean In Play can't trigger again, because actions can't trigger themselves, even indirectly. So the Town/Explorer isn't Drowned.

  In theory it can also happen if you use Infinite Vitality (with threshold) on the Ocean then Push Dahan into the Ocean, though that's usually a pointless play.
  Tags: Triggered Actions, Pieces, Drowning (Ocean's Hungry Grasp), Bringer of Dreams and Nightmares, 2 more...
• If two distinct Oceans are made adjacent somehow (e.g., via Open the Ways), can Ocean’s Hungry Grasp Push/Gather Presence between them with its Growth Options?
  Sure! It’s a bit ambiguous whether or not this works (and why) based on the exact wording of Ocean in Play, but there isn’t any harm in being permissive in this case.
  Tags: Ocean's Hungry Grasp, Ocean In Play (Ocean's Hungry Grasp), Open the Ways (Finder of Paths Unseen), Deeps Aspect (Ocean's Hungry Grasp), 0 more...
• Can a Spirit like Finder get its Presence in an in-play Ocean using "Move 1 Presence" on a growth track?
  No, because that is not a Power or Blight.

  The same applies to Presence placement during Growth or Growth options allowing movement.

  You can use Mists Shift and Flow to move Presence into the Ocean, as that happens as part of the targeting of a Power.
  (Discussion elsewhere)  Tags: Growth, Move, Finder of Paths Unseen, Ocean's Hungry Grasp, 8 more...
• When Ocean's Hungry Grasp is in play, can Blight, other Spirit Presence, Beasts, or other tokens end up in the Ocean?
  Yes, the Ocean is a Coastal Wetland for many purposes, and Blight and any of the tokens from Branch & Claw can end up there. Spirit Presence from other spirits cannot be placed there during the Growth phase, but can end up there as a result of cards like Indomitable Claim or Flow Like Water, Reach Like Air. So long as Ocean has Presence on the board, non-human pieces in the Ocean continue to behave normally and are considered "in play" - so a Disease would count for an Event which checks if the board has Disease, for instance, even though that's an Event Action.

  Invaders will never take actions there, so many of the tokens will have no effect.

  See also What happens to items left in the ocean if the last Presence of Ocean's Hungry Grasp is removed from the Island Board?.
  (Discussion elsewhere)  Tags: Ocean's Hungry Grasp, Indomitable Claim, Growth Through Sacrifice, Unrelenting Growth, 6 more...