Responsibilities to the Dead (Finder of Paths Unseen)

Frequently Asked Questions

Spirits and Innate Powers

• When exactly do you have to pay for Finder's rule Responsibilities to the Dead when you move something?
  When a Dahan or Invader is pushed in a way that:

  • Decreases the Health of that Dahan or Invader so it has now taken lethal Damage (one of many ways Finder's action can destroy the Dahan/Invaders with its own action);
  • Directly causes something else to destroy that Dahan or Invader (Finder directly triggering their destruction by moving them).

  The first case can happen by causing a Health penalty (e.g., Pushing into a Sacred Site of Rising Heat of Stone and Sand) or removing a Health bonus (e.g., Pushing Dahan out of a land with Infinite Vitality or Gathering a Durable Town into a land with Blight against Habsburg Monarchy Livestock Colony Level 4).

  The second case most commonly occurs when teaming up with Ocean's Hungry Grasp to Push Invaders into the Ocean, but can also occur with Powers like Melt Earth Into Quicksand and Call to Guard.

  If something prevents the destruction, then Finder does not need to pay. If one triggered action triggers another triggered action that causes destruction (like moving pieces into another Spirit's Bargain of Coursing Paths, which then moves those pieces to their destruction), this does not count as "directly triggering" the destruction.
  (Discussion elsewhere)  Tags: Triggered Actions, Durable, Health, Responsibilities to the Dead (Finder of Paths Unseen), 8 more...
• If Finder of Paths Unseen has an action which both directly destroys Invaders, and *also* triggers their destruction by moving them, does it lose Presence twice from Responsibilities to the Dead? What's the timing?
  As written, no - it's a single triggered action, so can only be invoked once per other action. It can just be invoked by two different things.

  Responsibilities to the Dead is weird in that it's a triggered action which checks consequences of other triggers on the same action - it would be much cleaner if the game never did this, but just checked all triggers exactly once at the completion of each action. For now, we're going to roll with it as written, but if it proves a problem it'll need to be tweaked.
  (Discussion elsewhere)  Tags: Triggered Actions, Rulings under examination, Responsibilities to the Dead (Finder of Paths Unseen)
• If Finder of Paths Unseen uses Infestation of Venomous Spiders with threshold, when does it have to pay for Responsibilities of the Dead?
  Each time an action is skipped and 1 or more Invaders are destroyed by the Damage (from the resulting triggered action).
  Tags: Timing, Triggered Actions, Skipping Actions, Responsibilities to the Dead (Finder of Paths Unseen), 1 more...
• If Finder of Paths Unseen causes Heart of the Wildfire to place Presence, destroying Invaders, does Finder need to pay for Responsibilities to the Dead? What if Finder destroys some of Volcano's Presence?
  No for Wildfire. Yes for Volcano, assuming the damage from destroying Volcano's Presence destroys 1 or more Invaders/Dahan.

  When placing Wildfire's Presence, Finder's action itself did not cause any destruction. It "directly triggers" the destruction (via Wildfire's special rule), but it did so by adding Presence, not by moving Dahan or Invaders. (Earlier printings of Wildfire incorrectly said "when" instead of "after" for the Special Rule; see the errata / clarifications on triggered actions.)

  Collapse in a Blast of Lava and Steam is phrased as a modifier - when Volcano's Presence is destroyed, it modifies the current action to also do 1 Damage. If that action is Finder's, it's Finder dealing the damage. (This would have worked more thematically if Collapse in a Blast of Lava and Steam had been a triggered action, since then it would have been Volcano dealing the damage.)
  (Discussion elsewhere) (Discussion elsewhere) (Discussion elsewhere)  Tags: Triggered Actions, Finder of Paths Unseen, Responsibilities to the Dead (Finder of Paths Unseen), Blazing Presence (Heart of the Wildfire), 3 more...